Lions Player Ratings

I’m not sure what has happened to our backline this season, but what used to be a potent strength for the Lions has now become a benign and threatless machine, devoid of any serious pace and creativity.

Pat Cilliers 4/10

Pat had a tough time and looked like he was battling a bit. He did however put in a few good hits and showed determination when he was clearly not comfortable.

Callie Visagie 7/10

I am very pleased for Callie as I have been particularly critical of him. He was for me the best Lion on the park, found his jumpers, made a nuisance of himself at the breakdowns and was critical in the build up to Killian’s try. Well played Callie

CJ van der Linde 3/10

Doesn’t look like he wants to be playing. His work rate was low, especially at the rucks and malls.

Ruan Botha 5/10

Played okay, stole a Force lineout or 2 and carried well a few times.

Franco van der Merwe 4/10

Played reasonably well but gave away a silly penalty or 2. He did jump well in the lineouts.

Derick Minnie 3/10

Just gave away too many penalties. Was completely outclassed by Pocock.

Grant Hattingh 5/10

Did not feature that much, but was generally involved at the breakdowns.

Josh Strauss 6/10

Josh seems to be the Lions best fetcher! He was very good on defense and caused a few turnovers.

Tian Meyer 4/10

Average game, but fluffed a few kicks and kicked when he should have passed.

Elton Jantjies 3/10

Elton’s tactical kicking was terrible and the following up was equally pathetic. Kicked away too much possession, when the Lions were starved of it. There were some close calls with his handling as well.

Lionel Mapoe 3/10

Not sure what to say about Mapoe except that I am now convinced that he has no clue what he is doing. He has made no impact at outside centre this season so far.

Michael Killian 4/10

Thought that the old Killian was back after he scored, but failed to make an impact afterwards. His handling was at times also poor.

Deon van Rensburg 2/10

I actually can’t remember if he got a yellow card this game or the last one – but I think it was this one and that is why I have given him a 2 … Joined the line a few times, but was awfully predictable and seemed to look for contact instead of making gaps.

Andries Coetzee 5/10

He needs to look for more work and he should be joining the line instead of van Rensburg.

James Kamana 3/10

Directionless, makes no impact. I do feel sorry for Kamana as I know that he is a better player than this. Just hasn’t done anything worthwhile since returning from that injury.

Baywatch 5/10

This man really does have a very high work rate and got stuck in from the second he was allowed on to the field.

45 comments to Lions Player Ratings

  • lions25

    I realy dont agree with your rating ay all LV.I think the rating you gave minnie is unfair he deserves a 7/10. He was very good on the ground and turned aroun 70% of the balls on his own.he gave away about 2 penalties and turned about 5

  • Kat

    Another Cheetah, Sias Ebershon, leaving (Force) … and people tell me the Cheetahs don’t need the Lions …

    How many current Cheetah players will play for them in 2013 at the rate players leave?

  • Lions-Admirer

    True Kat, that’s them lost Ebersohn, Earle, Johnson, vd Westhuizen, Nel and possibly Juan Smith if he doesnt recover! To be honest I would be far more worried if I were the Kings, who on earth are they going to sign?????

    The European deals were signed and sealed at least a month ago, so I cant see them having signed any players from Europe (they annoounced Matt Sexton as coach so clearly they arent trying to hold back annoouncing players) so really it could leave them in a really tricky situation, basically with a vodacom cup/currie cup B division team in Superugby – it will be a disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The other thing is ive heard a few WP players are possibly moving overseas – Armand, Fenton Wells and Catrakilis are all possibly moving away as well – this Kings venture could get scuppered based on the fact that no one will be interested in playing for them!!

  • Kat

    Well, L-A, Die Mol said in Rapport that he has “reliable” information that the GLRU agreed to give the Kings first option to use Lions players where we are relegated. It is stated in a way that creates the impression that relegation is a done deal. Problem is that Mol is very very well connected.

  • Lion86

    Lions25, i think its more to do with the fact that Minnie gave away extremely dumb penalties. how many times does a ref have to tell you to release the ball and that the ruck is formed before you listen to him. i like Minnie, he has saved us numerous times with good ground work, but he needs to start working on listening to the refs.

    Well with Taute out we are screwed. We we were screwed before, now its more like prison love to our backsides.

  • Kat

    If the Cheetahs are suddenly doing as well as many claim – requiring no help from us or anyone else – why’re so many players leaving? Something is not well in Bloem but they’ve just been less affected by injuries and threats to expose what is going on. If they had our injury list they would have been in far deeper shit than us by now.

  • Kat

    Take Grey College away and there is fokol rugby power left in Bloem. What on earth will attract a player to Bloem? They don’t have money. Players hang around there until they impressed someone else and get an offer. There are a few exceptions (Juan, etc) but in general they are in as much kak as we are, if not more. In Joburg a team can be made to work – if managed right – considering the population and money, but I don’t see Bloem doing the same if a Grey College were to disappear. Thin thread keeping them alive.

  • emiel

    Kat, what’s this with your anti-Cheetahs crusade? Sure, they probably never will win a S15 title, but they’re competitive(they propably will have a 50% winning rate this season), and they play a good brand of footie. They’ve always been loosing talented players, they’ve always lacked the player numbers of the big provinces, but despite all this they keep on producing talented gems. Surely they deserve support, not ridicule?

  • Kat

    Crusade? Ridicule? Anti-Cheetahs? Your interpretation of my comments are too negative emiel.

  • Kat

    It is my proposal that the Lions and Cheetahs should merge in SR that is ridiculed by supporters on both sides. I am of the opinion that the two need each other to become and remain truly competitive but the majority of the fans from the two sides seem to think otherwise … creating this Lala-land scenario where people want to be a winning SR franchise but will not make the compromises necessary to get there. At some point one must realise that participation alone is not good enough and that winning the damn thing must become a priority … and that demands new thinking/ideas/processes.

  • emiel

    No problemo Kat. Agree that they dont have the fundamentals to be a major force, but they could learn the other franchises about maximizing limited resources.

  • Lion86

    more money, less problems

  • lions25

    I Agree with Kat the lions and cheetahs will never be competitive on their own but I think working together and building a S15 team will just be an advantage, we have good individual players but not good enough as a team cause we lack quality players, together we can build a s15 team that I think can do some real damage

  • emiel

    Excuse my Oxford English, meant to say ” could teach the other franchises about maximizing limited resources”

  • LeeuBrul

    Die Southern Kings se deelname aan Super Rugby vir 2013 is gewaarborg en die opsie om ‘n sesde span te laat deelneem is klaar uitgemaak as wensdenkery.
    Waar laat dit SARU en wat is die opsies waarvan hulle praat?
    Die ringkoppe van SA rugby het nou al verskeie kere ontmoet en Kevin de Klerk is positief oor die steun wat die Lions het. Jammer om dit te se, maar aangesien die Kings onaantasbaar is gaan die huidige vyf unies dit uitspook om ‘n oplossing vir die saak te kry.
    Wat is die opsies:
    1. Laaste span in SA konferensie gaan uitval. Logiese en maklikste oplossing.
    2. Lions en Cheetahs smelt saam. Is al probeer en het nie gewerk nie. Hoekom sal Cheetahs hiervoor instem?
    3. Lions en Bulle smelt saam. Een streekspan vir Gauteng en die Lions word soos die Valke ‘n unie wat val onder die Bulle streek. Mmm….eina!
    4. Een van die ander streke soos die cheetahs val uit. Dit gaan nie gebeur nie!
    5. Lions leen hulle spelers uit om diepte aan ander unies te verleen en behou daardeur hulle spelers. Hoop en bid dan dat daar ‘n promosie relegasie wedstryd is waarby hulle weer SR status kan kry einde 2013.
    Wat ookal gebeur, die Lions veg nou al die afgelope 6 jaar om oorlewing in SR. Ek het ‘n gevoel dat Kevin de Klerk baie hard gaan probeer om die status te behou om die Lions ‘n span in SR te hou en BAIE beloftes gaan kry, maar op die ou einde gaan hy in die rug gesteek word. Opsie 1 en 5 gaan ons enigste keuses wees en ek hoop daar is meer as een plan by die Lions.
    Die GROOT name wat belowe is na 2011 het nie gerealiseer nie en die jong ouens wat deurgekom het is nog te groen en onervare. Duidelik gestel hulle is nie goed genoeg vir SR op hierdie stadium nie.‘n Nuwe besem vee die skoonste en miskien moet hierdie unie van ons geruk word tot in sy fondamente sodat die vrot kolle kan verdwyn en ‘n heeltemal nuwe denkrigting ingeslaan moet word. Nie om net te verbeter nie, maar ook om te oorleef….

  • emiel

    We had this debate a while back, and as I stated, there is no way the Cheetahs are going to agree to a merger so I personally think this dicussion is a waste of energy and time, despite the validity of our respective arguments.

    Sure hope that the Lions can overcome the difficulties for the next year or so. Our biggest shortfall the past ten years or so have been at management and financial levels, and I think in this regard things are changing for the better.

    Also some nice talent comming through from our junior ranks, mainly thanks to astute coaching and talent identification from under 19 coach Hans Coetzee and Russel Winter.

  • Cheetahs don’t need the Lions.

    The need a huge sponsor.

  • Can only imagine if all the millions that has been given to the Lions over the last 6 years was given to the Cheetahs, how good they would have been.

  • Lions-Admirer

    Emiel, i dont think it matters what the Cheetahs want, as far as I am aware the franchise rights are up for renewal come the end of superugby 2012, and thus SARU can restructure as they see fit or want. Thus they could force the Lions and Cheetahs to merge, regardless of whether each think it is a good idea. I’m not in favour of it either, but as a short term solution till 2015 I think it is the only other option if superrugby status cannot be retained.

  • Kat

    Emiel, the Cheetahs+Lions discussion might be a waste of energy/time because we know the unions will fight to keep things as they are even when “as is” will never translate to anything worthwhile. It’s more comfy to just participate and keep things as they are and not desirable to get out of the comfort zone and win the SR title. The fans – as usual – are the losers. We hope and pray our teams do well and actually stand a chance to win the thing but back at the ranch just participating – and enjoying the benefits thereof – is more than good enough. The Cheetahs’ management will be happy to float around position 10 for eternity as long as they get all the participation benefits (and don’t have to share them for a greater cause). Same goes for the Lions.

    Personally, I had enough of such mediocrity. Either these two teams come up with a way to win the title … or I find myself a team that is serious about winning the title.

  • Kat

    Willa, who in their right mind will come in as a huge sponsor for a Bloem based team? What marketing value is their in Bloem that will result in huge sales? Sponsors don’t just throw good money away. Look how long it took to land Toyota as sponsor, and Toyota came with so many clauses that FS didn’t want to take the sponsorship at some stage.

    Time to look at things as they ARE and not as we wish they could be. In professional sport there is no Lala-land. You must create win-win partnerships, or die.

    I know I’m not making any progress with this debate. People want their bread buttered on both sides. Reality however won’t allow that. A SR champion Lions team won’t happen. A SR champion Cheetahs team won’t happen. Ever. If you guys are happy with that then it is your prerogative to go on like that. Some people however want to go for the whole thing … go big … or go home. In my mind the only way this will happen is when two struggling teams work together.

  • Kat

    A new Cheetahs+Lions franchise captures a much larger market for sponsors. I am convinced there will be more interest that translates into more money. One should also think carefully about the identity of this franchise to position it in such a way to attract the sort of sponsors most desirable to attract.

    Yes I know the Cats was a failure … but even under those crap conditions they reached two semi finals. Since then we didn’t get close. Going by results the Crap Cats worked better than the teams on their own. Fact. If one were to structure the thing better this time around and eliminate the problems of the past then they will only do better.

    I agree with L-A… it is up to SARU to award as they see fit and if SARU is clever they will make a merger happen. Sometimes the best medicine must be shoved down the throat of a kid.

  • Kat

    You wonder why the Bulls did so well in SR? Because of this: Meyer only interested in winning …

  • Kat

    Amen! Meyer: “I believe in two types of rugby; winning rugby and losing rugby, there is nothing in between for me,” said the man entrusted with the fortunes of the Springboks over the next four years.”

  • emiel

    Yip Kat , whether youre shouting for a artificial construct called the Wildcats or supporing the Bulls or Stormers, you’re anyway supporting another team. I’m old fashioned in that way. Am not happy with state of affairs, but Lions problems can only be rectifeid by recruiting competent management(financial and adminstrative)and implementing good structures. Thats how the Sharks, Bulls and Stormers lifted themselves out of the dumps,

  • Kat

    Do we want to win the SR title?

    Does FS want to win the SR title?

    Or are both happy to just participate … happy with the knowledge that they will never have what is required to win the trophy?

  • Kat

    Emiel, when the Bulls were in deep trouble around 2002 they approached Louis Luyt who got them out of trouble. The old players got very involved and helped rescue the union. We chased Luyt away … and we’ve been paying for it ever since and our old players don’t give a shit. Is there another person like Luyt passionate enough to save the Lions like Luyt did for the Bulls? If not, we are dead.

    The Sharks did things right from the word go and hardly ever lost the plot so they’ve been building momentum for 20 years. The brans is very attractive and gained a lot of support from people jumping ship at other unions. Because they’ve been doing consistently well they have a solid loyal supporters base.

    WP/Stormers will almost always be competitive no matter how bad their administrators are as they have a junior feeder system like no-where else in the world. When the one goes a new guy just as good steps into his place. I live here and see this … unbelievable talent all over the place … even at the smaller schools. The Western Cape – and especially the Boland region – just oozes rugby talent. They will never sit with our problems.

    We will not emulate the Bulls, WP and Sharks without a miracle like Luyt. Same goes for a Bloem based team. When Luyt helped us he did it by buying success. The 90′s were not normal for Transvaal/Lions. Luyt bought a CC dominating Noord Transvaal team and gave them Transvaal jerseys. Won’t happen again. Best we forget about that period and look at reality.

  • mufasa62

    Kat ek stem saam met jou want wat jy se het ek ook noual baie oor gedink en dit maak net doodeenvoudig sin!! Die probleem is ons mense is mos van nature nie bereid om na die posetiewe eerste te kyk nie. Wanneer dit kom by ons trots dan wil ons mos altyd net ons eie beskerm wat seker niks meer verkeerd is nie. Hoe se die ou spreukwoord ” HOU OP OM “N PROBLEEM IN ELKE OPLOSSING TE SIEN EN SIEN EERDER “N OPLOSSING IN ELKE PROBLEEM!!”

    Wanneer dit gaan oor resultate soos om te wen en om oorlewing dan moet ‘n mens die groter oplossing kan raak sien en vir ‘n slag verby al die ” Hoekoms Dit Nie Kan Werk Nie” Verby kyk en eerder vra maar hoe kan ons dit wel laat werk. Ek se nog steeds die Cheetahs speel dalk nou beter as ons maar ek laat my nie vertel hulle het ons nie nodig nie ons twee Unies kan saam ‘n Great Krag as ‘n S15 Franchise word!!

    “n mens kan enige iets in die lewe laat werk en ‘n sukses maak daarvan dit hang alles net van jou Attitude af!! Se nou net die Cheetahs weier om met ons te merge en volgende jaar tref dieselfde hulle as wat ons getref het en moenie vir my se dit sal nooit gebeur nie want ons almal weet dit kan!! en se nou net hulle moet teen ons dan speel in relagsie en se nou net ons het ‘n lekker sterk CC span gebou en ons gee hulle pak en hulle moet dan plek maak vir ons wat dan?

    As hulle slim is sal hulle Baie mooi daaroor gaan nadink en dan nog steeds moet vra of hulle ons nodig het. Met ‘n merger skakel altwee unies al sulke ou onvoorsiene gebeurlikehede uit en speel altwee Unies se bestes nog steeds S15 Dis volgens my ‘n wen wen vir albei partye.

    Ek hoop net Kevin en Harold dink mooi en praat alles mooi deur as so opsie wel die laaste uitweg is instede daarvan om toe te laat dat hardegatgeit uiteindelik albei Unies duur te staan kan laat kom!!!!

  • emiel

    Kat, the Sharks did not have a Louis Luyt to guide them out of the B division of the Curry Cup, they earned it. The Bulls had Heyneke Meyer to implemnt structures and the same with the Stormers and Rassie Erasmus while the Lions had Louis Luyt’s bussiness acumen. This has nothing to do with miracles ot quickfix mergers, just competent management and a vision.

  • Kat

    Dankie mufasa62. Waardeer regtig hoe jy die ding benader. Ons almal hier is lief vir die Leeus.

  • Kat

    Emiel, the most competent managers look realities in the eye and do what must be done come hell or high water. Sometimes the most competent managers work towards a merger. Mergers are common in business and those are also done by very competent managers. Mergers requires no less competency and vision than not merging. When a merger is warranted the best managers will go for it.

  • Kat

    I a merger is the best thing to do now a competent manager with vision will propose and implement exactly that. A poor manager will stick to what is popular, but suicidal. A good manager will stand up for what is best even when he has to implement unpopular solutions. Don’t confuse competent and best with popular and sentimental.

  • Kat

    If fans were more demanding about winning the shit would have stopped long ago. But because existing as a specific identity is more important than winning we have what we have.

  • emiel

    The Lions are situated in the economic hub of the country with a large player base. If they still need to merge with a team in Bloemfontein to survive and be competitive, then its quite obvious that they dont deserve to exist and they may as well close their doors.

  • Dizzy1273

    Ek het nou van die man himself gehoor,as die lions nie volgende jaar super rugby speel nie hy ‘n kontrak by ‘n and er unie gaan aanvaar, en def die lions gaan verlaat— jaco taute

  • LeeuBrul

    As hulle merge sal die Cheetah ondersteuners die moer in wees. Ek sou ook, want daar is niks soos om met passie vir jou eie span te skree nie.

    Ek het met afgryse in 2010 ‘n ondersteuners vergadering met Kevin de Klerk en Manie Reynecke bygewoon. Hier is belowe dat dinge sal verander op Super Rugby vlak in drie jaar!

    Dit was duidelik dat die unie gewanbestuur was vir 7 jaar en dat daar geen besigheid plan was voor einde 2009 toe Kevin oorgeneem het nie. Onfikse spelers, geld wanbestuur, swak en ongeldige kontrakte. Dit byt nou harder as ooit. Die drie jaar wat belowe is het ons uit Super Rugby gekry!

    Hierdie unie moet soos ‘n professionele besigheid bestuur word. Van die kaartjie kantoor se onvriedelike diens tot die stadium winkel skree van onprofessionaliteit. Wanneer laas kon mens by ‘n gewone retail wnkel Lions merchandise koop … In JHB.

  • mufasa62

    Dizzy het jy dit by Taute self gehoor?

  • Kat

    Sonder SR gaan ons beste ouens waai. Ek sê dit nog heeltyd. Vergeet maar van ouens wat gaan uitsit as deel van relegasie. Ouens stel ook gladnie belang om uitgeleen te word nie rn veral nie aan die Kings nie. Spelers soos Taute verdien beter en verdien om SR waarborge te hê.

  • Kat

    Kanse is bitter goed dat Josh terugkom Kaap-toe. Hy is net te veel werd om uit te sit. ‘n Mens kan woes spekuleer maar daar is tog common sense dinge wat mense maar op kan bank.

  • @Kat: Een moerse slim sponsor.

  • @Kat, jy hammer heeltemal te veel op die merger en is besig om jou credibility te verloor.

    As dit so n moerse goeie idee was sou altwee unies lankal dit wou doen het.

  • Kat

    Willa, as ek my credibility hier verloor omdat ek bly staan by wat ek glo dan is dit bakgat so. Dis wie ek is en wat jy van my dink maak absoluut geen verskil aan my nie. Lankal verby die plek in my lewe waar ek goed doen of sê om populêr te wees. Ek is heel gewoond daaraan om alleen te staan.

    Wanneer ‘n moerse goeie idee mense verplig om hul gemaksones en plek op die soustrein op te gee dan vertel hulle jou baie gou waarom die idee kak is. Ek kyk lankal dwarsdeur rugby.

  • Dizzy1273

    hi mufasa, ja ek was gister by hom gewees, hy het vir my gese, hy se spelers moet aan hulle eie toekoms dink, wat sin maak, bly oor die skouer, nou net 3 maande na op, anders was dit 6 anyways wou maar net deel!

  • mufasa62

    Dankie Dizzy ek waardeer baie. Shit ek hoop nie hy waai nie as dit is hoe hy voel dan sien ek maar swarigheid vir ons Unie en weet nie hoe gaan hulle dan ons beste spelers behou nie?

    Wel kom ons glo en vertrou maar ek weet ons kan ook nie die splers wat wil waai kwalik neem soos dit nou gaan nie maar hel ons kan dit nie bekostig nie. Nie nou nie!!!

  • Dizzy1273

    cool mufasa

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